xm411.com - Free Downloads

Author

Thread

Capn
I sleep here

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5232

Free Downloads

I initiate this topic again because of the survey posted in General Discussion "How Strange is this"

Very Exciting! In the way they asked the questions in the survey they seem to be seriously considering the option to save songs individually for free , but only playable on the radio. This is the Killer Application I have been promoting. i.e. the option to pay 99 cents for transportable songs (off the air or downloaded), or save it for free off the air but not transportable.

1st question: The ability to save and replay any individual songs recorded on XM, but not the ability to copy them to a PC for burning to a CD or downloading to an MP3 player.

This would create a huge buzz in the portable market and significantly enhance the value proposition of XM for a lot of people. To me this has always been an obvious next step for XM and while I don't expect the RIAA to be especially happy with it, I don't see any roadblocks. But I am not close enough to the XM/RIAA relationship to really understand if their is a roadblock. So I find this survey encouraging, because I don't think they would have broached the subject of free songs in a survey if it were ruled out due to some RIAA issues.

In the past when I have brought this up there have been few responses on the board. Am I the only one that thinks this is a killer application that would be a huge catalyst for growth into the portable market?

Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:40 am

CableIAI
I sleep here

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 1640

I agree. An XM / MP3 downloader is THE KILLER APP. CD's and TerRad will be vastly undermined. MP3 players without the "fresh content" of SatRad will also become lame.

I think we will see this before the holidays (with which hardware partners - I won't even guess). Still, correctly marketed, this becomes the only portable music player worth having.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:51 am

xscream9
I sleep here

Joined: 20 May 2004
Posts: 1421
Location: Seattle, WA
Primary Radio: MyFi, Roady2

Re: Free Downloads

quote:
Originally posted by Capn:

In the past when I have brought this up there have been few responses on the board. Am I the only one that thinks this is a killer application that would be a huge catalyst for growth into the portable market?

Of course this is the killer app. This is one of the biggest complaints I have with my MyFi. You can't delete individual songs.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:55 am

KTMC
XM411 Community Leader

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5653
Location: ALBUQERQUE NM
Primary Radio: SKYFI2/BOOMBOX HELIX SL100

and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads
currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song
albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher
so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine
apples itunes.
on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod
the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high
i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit
and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well
come on board
_________________
SLACKER

Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:01 pm

Capn
I sleep here

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5232

Re: Free Downloads

quote:
Originally posted by xscream9:

quote:
Originally posted by Capn:

In the past when I have brought this up there have been few responses on the board. Am I the only one that thinks this is a killer application that would be a huge catalyst for growth into the portable market?

Of course this is the killer app. This is one of the biggest complaints I have with my MyFi. You can't delete individual songs.

With the MyFi you can't record individual songs either - at least not conveniently.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:09 pm

Capn
I sleep here

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5232

quote:
Originally posted by KTMC:
and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads
currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song
albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher
so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine
apples itunes.
on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod
the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high
i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit
and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well
come on board

The salient point in my post is the free but restricted downloads. All the MP3 player stuff, including 99 cent downloads, is just inevitable convergence and all the various options and user friendliness will certainly come from various manufacturers - starting this fall. The free record and playback of on-air digitally broadcast songs would be new and would place XM portables with such capability in a class by themselves. This is the killer application.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:14 pm

valhalla
I sleep here

Joined: 25 Feb 2005
Posts: 1514
Location: South Jersey
Primary Radio: AIRWARE BABY!

oh yeah. KILLER app.

Like Tune Select, it will be "Download select" and it will be the ITunes killer for sure.

The whole problem with ITunes and these services is this:

You have to sit at your computer.
You have to know what songs you want. (Title, Artist)

Ok, what happens when you don't know the song, unless you hear it?

If XM can put the whole iTunes paradigm behind a button push on a handheld while you are listening?

Lookout, the company will be in Apple or Microsoft's league real fast.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:54 pm

Capn
I sleep here

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5232

quote:
Originally posted by valhalla:
oh yeah. KILLER app.

Like Tune Select, it will be "Download select" and it will be the ITunes killer for sure.

The whole problem with ITunes and these services is this:

You have to sit at your computer.
You have to know what songs you want. (Title, Artist)

Ok, what happens when you don't know the song, unless you hear it?

If XM can put the whole iTunes paradigm behind a button push on a handheld while you are listening?

Lookout, the company will be in Apple or Microsoft's league real fast.

Are you forgeting it is free? The question is... do you think most people would consider the ability to save a free but restricted use song of greater value than the ability to download on demand songs for 99 cents with unrestricted use?

Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:58 pm

usty
XM411 Regular

Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 87

Primary Radio: myfi

I don't know if an over the air downloadable system is possible, since there's no way to send data back from the receiver to the sats. I think the best way to do it, would be to have the myfi like it is now, meaning storing 2go songs for free, but press the memory button to store songs you'd want to download later. Then when you connect the device to the computer, it automatically retrieves that list and asks if you want to download them to a more permanent memory bank at a certain price per song. That would be awesome.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:00 pm

Capn
I sleep here

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5232

quote:
Originally posted by usty:
I don't know if an over the air downloadable system is possible, since there's no way to send data back from the receiver to the sats. I think the best way to do it, would be to have the myfi like it is now, meaning storing 2go songs for free, but press the memory button to store songs you'd want to download later. Then when you connect the device to the computer, it automatically retrieves that list and asks if you want to download them to a more permanent memory bank at a certain price per song. That would be awesome.

"Downloading" on demand off the air is not possible/practical. The application is push a button and save the song you are listening to and it is free, but you can not copy it to other devices. And, as you say, if you want to pay for a song that can be transported you could push a button to save the song title and then download it later over the internet.

The question is... do you think most people would consider the ability to save a free but restricted use song of greater value than the ability to download on demand songs for 99 cents with unrestricted use?

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:04 pm

usty
XM411 Regular

Joined: 15 Aug 2004
Posts: 87

Primary Radio: myfi

quote:
Originally posted by Capn:
The question is... do you think most people would consider the ability to save a free but restricted use song of greater value than the ability to download on demand songs for 99 cents with unrestricted use?

I think so. I'll use my own personal experiences as an example. I record Opie and Anthony every night for 4 hours along with an hour of music. Sometimes, that hour of music that I got (technically, subscription rate not withstanding) for free, includes many songs that I would love to be able to listen to over and over again, but I know that I'll be recording over them in the next 24 hours. Even on weekends, there's been time where I didn't want to record new music because my list of songs I had stored was everything that I wanted to hear.

If I was able to go online and maybe save a playlist or two permanently to my MyFi, while still being able to record free restricted use songs, it would definitely appeal to me.

One other thing to think about, and I know this is a dangerous assumption, but I work part time in an office of older women, mostly, and they see my myfi and ask if it's an I-Pod. If a satellite radio was to be made with I-Pod like characteristics, it would be a huge word of mouth seller. The buzz generated by people who don't know technology (i.e. the people I work with) would make these things very worthwhile, I feel. I could picture them now asking me if I had the "new I-Pod with satellite radio." Even if it wasn't an I-Pod, because to them, I-Pod has become like Band Aid or Q-Tip, a brand name that describes an entire field of products.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:18 pm

KTMC
XM411 Community Leader

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5653
Location: ALBUQERQUE NM
Primary Radio: SKYFI2/BOOMBOX HELIX SL100

quote:
Originally posted by Capn:

quote:
Originally posted by KTMC:
and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads
currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song
albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher
so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine
apples itunes.
on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod
the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high
i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit
and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well
come on board

The salient point in my post is the free but restricted downloads. All the MP3 player stuff, including 99 cent downloads, is just inevitable convergence and all the various options and user friendliness will certainly come from various manufacturers - starting this fall. The free record and playback of on-air digitally broadcast songs would be new and would place XM portables with such capability in a class by themselves. This is the killer application.

free would be an ideal price but wouldnt the RIAA and the record companies bitch about being ripped off etc
or would the 12.95 cover allthis if they decide to do just a service
would be cheaper then napsterto go
and how much would non xm subscibers have to pay in order to use the service ?
_________________
SLACKER

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:35 pm

Capn
I sleep here

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5232

quote:
Originally posted by KTMC:

quote:
Originally posted by Capn:

quote:
Originally posted by KTMC:
and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads
currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song
albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher
so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine
apples itunes.
on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod
the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high
i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit
and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well
come on board

The salient point in my post is the free but restricted downloads. All the MP3 player stuff, including 99 cent downloads, is just inevitable convergence and all the various options and user friendliness will certainly come from various manufacturers - starting this fall. The free record and playback of on-air digitally broadcast songs would be new and would place XM portables with such capability in a class by themselves. This is the killer application.

free would be an ideal price but wouldnt the RIAA and the record companies bitch about being ripped off etc
or would the 12.95 cover allthis if they decide to do just a service
would be cheaper then napsterto go
and how much would non xm subscibers have to pay in order to use the service ?

RIAA is always bitching. The the Fair Use Act (I forget what it was called) permits recording off the air for personal use. If it is recoreded off the air broadcast and not copied or even transported to another device that is the ideal situation for the RIAA - except for the free part. It costs XM nothing to provide it and would promote subscriber growth.

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:48 pm

CableIAI
I sleep here

Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 1640

quote:
Originally posted by usty:
I don't know if an over the air downloadable system is possible, since there's no way to send data back from the receiver to the sats. I think the best way to do it, would be to have the myfi like it is now, meaning storing 2go songs for free, but press the memory button to store songs you'd want to download later.

I am not well versed in this stuff, but... Couldn't the MyFi2 / SkyPod hard drive constantly record whatever station is being listened to? There would have to be a way for it to store song title info and "separators" between each song. If you click the free "save" button, the song (with info) is transferred from the Tivo-like buffer drive (which records over itself automatically), to a "My Songs" drive which is saved forever unless the user deletes a specific song later. Obviously there would only be one physical hard drive which is parsed into "buffer" and "permanent" segments. Anyway, can someone with technical knowledge tell me if it is this easy?

Last edited by CableIAI on Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:58 pm

KTMC
XM411 Community Leader

Joined: 08 Feb 2004
Posts: 5653
Location: ALBUQERQUE NM
Primary Radio: SKYFI2/BOOMBOX HELIX SL100

when will xm roll out such a service
Sirius will have a mp3 this summer with the xact rego unit
_________________
SLACKER

Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:59 pm

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		Author	Thread
		Capn I sleep here Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5232	Free Downloads I initiate this topic again because of the survey posted in General Discussion "How Strange is this" Very Exciting! In the way they asked the questions in the survey they seem to be seriously considering the option to save songs individually for free , but only playable on the radio. This is the Killer Application I have been promoting. i.e. the option to pay 99 cents for transportable songs (off the air or downloaded), or save it for free off the air but not transportable. 1st question: The ability to save and replay any individual songs recorded on XM, but not the ability to copy them to a PC for burning to a CD or downloading to an MP3 player. This would create a huge buzz in the portable market and significantly enhance the value proposition of XM for a lot of people. To me this has always been an obvious next step for XM and while I don't expect the RIAA to be especially happy with it, I don't see any roadblocks. But I am not close enough to the XM/RIAA relationship to really understand if their is a roadblock. So I find this survey encouraging, because I don't think they would have broached the subject of free songs in a survey if it were ruled out due to some RIAA issues. In the past when I have brought this up there have been few responses on the board. Am I the only one that thinks this is a killer application that would be a huge catalyst for growth into the portable market?
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:40 am
		CableIAI I sleep here Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 1640	I agree. An XM / MP3 downloader is THE KILLER APP. CD's and TerRad will be vastly undermined. MP3 players without the "fresh content" of SatRad will also become lame. I think we will see this before the holidays (with which hardware partners - I won't even guess). Still, correctly marketed, this becomes the only portable music player worth having.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:51 am
		xscream9 I sleep here Joined: 20 May 2004 Posts: 1421 Location: Seattle, WA Primary Radio: MyFi, Roady2	Re: Free Downloads quote: Originally posted by Capn: In the past when I have brought this up there have been few responses on the board. Am I the only one that thinks this is a killer application that would be a huge catalyst for growth into the portable market? Of course this is the killer app. This is one of the biggest complaints I have with my MyFi. You can't delete individual songs.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 11:55 am
		KTMC XM411 Community Leader Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5653 Location: ALBUQERQUE NM Primary Radio: SKYFI2/BOOMBOX HELIX SL100	and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine apples itunes. on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well come on board _________________ SLACKER
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:01 pm
		Capn I sleep here Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5232	Re: Free Downloads quote: Originally posted by xscream9: quote: Originally posted by Capn: In the past when I have brought this up there have been few responses on the board. Am I the only one that thinks this is a killer application that would be a huge catalyst for growth into the portable market? Of course this is the killer app. This is one of the biggest complaints I have with my MyFi. You can't delete individual songs. With the MyFi you can't record individual songs either - at least not conveniently.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:09 pm
		Capn I sleep here Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5232	quote: Originally posted by KTMC: and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine apples itunes. on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well come on board The salient point in my post is the free but restricted downloads. All the MP3 player stuff, including 99 cent downloads, is just inevitable convergence and all the various options and user friendliness will certainly come from various manufacturers - starting this fall. The free record and playback of on-air digitally broadcast songs would be new and would place XM portables with such capability in a class by themselves. This is the killer application.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:14 pm
		valhalla I sleep here Joined: 25 Feb 2005 Posts: 1514 Location: South Jersey Primary Radio: AIRWARE BABY!	oh yeah. KILLER app. Like Tune Select, it will be "Download select" and it will be the ITunes killer for sure. The whole problem with ITunes and these services is this: You have to sit at your computer. You have to know what songs you want. (Title, Artist) Ok, what happens when you don't know the song, unless you hear it? If XM can put the whole iTunes paradigm behind a button push on a handheld while you are listening? Lookout, the company will be in Apple or Microsoft's league real fast.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:54 pm
		Capn I sleep here Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5232	quote: Originally posted by valhalla: oh yeah. KILLER app. Like Tune Select, it will be "Download select" and it will be the ITunes killer for sure. The whole problem with ITunes and these services is this: You have to sit at your computer. You have to know what songs you want. (Title, Artist) Ok, what happens when you don't know the song, unless you hear it? If XM can put the whole iTunes paradigm behind a button push on a handheld while you are listening? Lookout, the company will be in Apple or Microsoft's league real fast. Are you forgeting it is free? The question is... do you think most people would consider the ability to save a free but restricted use song of greater value than the ability to download on demand songs for 99 cents with unrestricted use?
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 12:58 pm
		usty XM411 Regular Joined: 15 Aug 2004 Posts: 87 Primary Radio: myfi	I don't know if an over the air downloadable system is possible, since there's no way to send data back from the receiver to the sats. I think the best way to do it, would be to have the myfi like it is now, meaning storing 2go songs for free, but press the memory button to store songs you'd want to download later. Then when you connect the device to the computer, it automatically retrieves that list and asks if you want to download them to a more permanent memory bank at a certain price per song. That would be awesome.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:00 pm
		Capn I sleep here Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5232	quote: Originally posted by usty: I don't know if an over the air downloadable system is possible, since there's no way to send data back from the receiver to the sats. I think the best way to do it, would be to have the myfi like it is now, meaning storing 2go songs for free, but press the memory button to store songs you'd want to download later. Then when you connect the device to the computer, it automatically retrieves that list and asks if you want to download them to a more permanent memory bank at a certain price per song. That would be awesome. "Downloading" on demand off the air is not possible/practical. The application is push a button and save the song you are listening to and it is free, but you can not copy it to other devices. And, as you say, if you want to pay for a song that can be transported you could push a button to save the song title and then download it later over the internet. The question is... do you think most people would consider the ability to save a free but restricted use song of greater value than the ability to download on demand songs for 99 cents with unrestricted use?
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:04 pm
		usty XM411 Regular Joined: 15 Aug 2004 Posts: 87 Primary Radio: myfi	quote: Originally posted by Capn: The question is... do you think most people would consider the ability to save a free but restricted use song of greater value than the ability to download on demand songs for 99 cents with unrestricted use? I think so. I'll use my own personal experiences as an example. I record Opie and Anthony every night for 4 hours along with an hour of music. Sometimes, that hour of music that I got (technically, subscription rate not withstanding) for free, includes many songs that I would love to be able to listen to over and over again, but I know that I'll be recording over them in the next 24 hours. Even on weekends, there's been time where I didn't want to record new music because my list of songs I had stored was everything that I wanted to hear. If I was able to go online and maybe save a playlist or two permanently to my MyFi, while still being able to record free restricted use songs, it would definitely appeal to me. One other thing to think about, and I know this is a dangerous assumption, but I work part time in an office of older women, mostly, and they see my myfi and ask if it's an I-Pod. If a satellite radio was to be made with I-Pod like characteristics, it would be a huge word of mouth seller. The buzz generated by people who don't know technology (i.e. the people I work with) would make these things very worthwhile, I feel. I could picture them now asking me if I had the "new I-Pod with satellite radio." Even if it wasn't an I-Pod, because to them, I-Pod has become like Band Aid or Q-Tip, a brand name that describes an entire field of products.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:18 pm
		KTMC XM411 Community Leader Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5653 Location: ALBUQERQUE NM Primary Radio: SKYFI2/BOOMBOX HELIX SL100	quote: Originally posted by Capn: quote: Originally posted by KTMC: and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine apples itunes. on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well come on board The salient point in my post is the free but restricted downloads. All the MP3 player stuff, including 99 cent downloads, is just inevitable convergence and all the various options and user friendliness will certainly come from various manufacturers - starting this fall. The free record and playback of on-air digitally broadcast songs would be new and would place XM portables with such capability in a class by themselves. This is the killer application. free would be an ideal price but wouldnt the RIAA and the record companies bitch about being ripped off etc or would the 12.95 cover allthis if they decide to do just a service would be cheaper then napsterto go and how much would non xm subscibers have to pay in order to use the service ? _________________ SLACKER
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:35 pm
		Capn I sleep here Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5232	quote: Originally posted by KTMC: quote: Originally posted by Capn: quote: Originally posted by KTMC: and they could use the current xmonline interface for such downloads currntly itunes charges .99 cents per song albums are a little higher around $8.00 and higher so thery would have to have a compelling price point in order to undermine apples itunes. on the hardware front would need a device that is easy to use like the ipod the creavite nomad is a good player i dont own one personally but read revies on CC and its rated quite high i think a partnership with creative,iriver,sony, would be a good fit and im sure there are other mp3 makers out as well come on board The salient point in my post is the free but restricted downloads. All the MP3 player stuff, including 99 cent downloads, is just inevitable convergence and all the various options and user friendliness will certainly come from various manufacturers - starting this fall. The free record and playback of on-air digitally broadcast songs would be new and would place XM portables with such capability in a class by themselves. This is the killer application. free would be an ideal price but wouldnt the RIAA and the record companies bitch about being ripped off etc or would the 12.95 cover allthis if they decide to do just a service would be cheaper then napsterto go and how much would non xm subscibers have to pay in order to use the service ? RIAA is always bitching. The the Fair Use Act (I forget what it was called) permits recording off the air for personal use. If it is recoreded off the air broadcast and not copied or even transported to another device that is the ideal situation for the RIAA - except for the free part. It costs XM nothing to provide it and would promote subscriber growth.
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:48 pm
		CableIAI I sleep here Joined: 29 Oct 2004 Posts: 1640	quote: Originally posted by usty: I don't know if an over the air downloadable system is possible, since there's no way to send data back from the receiver to the sats. I think the best way to do it, would be to have the myfi like it is now, meaning storing 2go songs for free, but press the memory button to store songs you'd want to download later. I am not well versed in this stuff, but... Couldn't the MyFi2 / SkyPod hard drive constantly record whatever station is being listened to? There would have to be a way for it to store song title info and "separators" between each song. If you click the free "save" button, the song (with info) is transferred from the Tivo-like buffer drive (which records over itself automatically), to a "My Songs" drive which is saved forever unless the user deletes a specific song later. Obviously there would only be one physical hard drive which is parsed into "buffer" and "permanent" segments. Anyway, can someone with technical knowledge tell me if it is this easy? Last edited by CableIAI on Wed Mar 30, 2005 2:00 pm; edited 1 time in total
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:58 pm
		KTMC XM411 Community Leader Joined: 08 Feb 2004 Posts: 5653 Location: ALBUQERQUE NM Primary Radio: SKYFI2/BOOMBOX HELIX SL100	when will xm roll out such a service Sirius will have a mp3 this summer with the xact rego unit _________________ SLACKER
		Wed Mar 30, 2005 1:59 pm